4.5 week old puppy help

[moonchiald]

My brother and SIL brought home a 4.5 week old rat terrier today. Should they feed him a milk replacement and what kind? Would goats milk be okay? He can't even drink water from a dish!

The breeder insisted that they take him today, so they didn't really have a choice.

I spent 15 minutes tonight combing fleas off the poor little thing.

TIA for any advice.

They have a heating pad on a bed and one of his mothers toys for comfort.

[Koala Kim]

Poor little baby!

What kind of "breeder" would take away a baby at 4.5 weeks? <really need that hachet smiley right now>

I think goat's milk would work. It worked wonderfully well with our Callie.
KMR makes puppy milk replacement. But I think they'll be okay with the goat's milk.

The heating pad is a good idea. Also, a nice ticking clock sometimes soothes puppies. Maybe it reminds them of Momma's heartbeat?

[Doctorblue]

I would definitely take him to the vet tomorrow. If they were so insistent on getting rid of the dog, there's a good chance there was a sinister reason why. You could also get a Capstar if your vet carries it to help with the fleas.

I would go and buy some Nutrical and feed some of that several times a day. It's a nutrient supplement that is especially good for the toy breeds.

Also, I'd get some Esbilac. The goat's milk would work, but the Esbilac would be better if you can get it. If you can get the puppy to drink out of a dish, you can mix the Esbilac with wet puppy food. Otherwise, you will have to bottle feed it.

Heating pad and the mother's toy are good. Also, if they have an oldtimey alarm clock, you can use those to simulate the mother's heartbeat.

Good luck and *crosses fingers* that everything will be well with the new puppy!

[moonchiald]

Well, she isn't a full time breeder just decided to have her dog bred. She insisted that he was weaned but as soon as I picked him up he started sucking my earlobe! Doesn't sound weaned to me!

The only way he will drink anything is by sucking water off of someone's finger. I will go get him some goat's milk and a bottle tomorrow. My SIL has alot of running around to do with my niece and nephew. I have a feeling I will be "baby" sitting in the next couple of weeks.

He wobbles around and is SO cute but I was too worried about him to go all gushy. He fit in my hand!

[moonchiald]

The pups all seem healthy. She said that she is tired of taking care of them. That is was like having a baby again. Well what did she expect with BABY dogs? DUH!

[Koala Kim]

You do realize we will need updates right? :happy:

[moonchiald]

Yes! I will supply the required picture in the next day or two! He is white with black on him. Then he has brown eyebrows and another smudge of brown on his face. I have never had a dog suck on my earlobe! LOL!

Oh and they want to name him Tux like Tuxedo. All I can think is Tuck's like hemerroids (okay, I know that is spelled SO wrong but I have never written that word before).

[eiyela]

Looks like Callie ha some competition on her hands (paws?)!:geek:

Seriously though, this is awful! There is no way handing a 4.5 weeks old puppy is justified.:pissed: I remember one breeder I knew taking most the puppies away from their mother at 5 weeks, and those puppies are totally screwed up now because she didn't take proper care of them.

Not trying to scare you, but the puppy will need a LOT of attention to replace its mother at that age. It will be like having another baby for a couple of months for them. Goat's milk should be a decent replacement, but you might want to talk to the vet about that too. Esbilac is still better, as Doctorblue said. Don't try taking it for long walks yet, either. A little bit of playing in the yard is fine, but the puppy probably isn't ready for a leash. Have a newspaper ready inside.

And good luck! I'm sure it's adorable.:soppy:

[Stephanie]

I have a few choice words about that woman which are so not appropriate here.

Great advice and none that I can add. Please do keep us updated.

[Pegasus Marsters]

Arrrrgh! *searches for the hatchet smilie* What kind of person seperates a 4 week old puppy from its mum? Idiot! (Her, not you!) I cant believe that! :pissed: When my cat had kittens we kept them till 10 weeks just to make sure they were fully weaned before giving them to thier new owners.

Keep us updated on the little one!

[bowie]

Hatin' on those unprofessional backyard breeders right now.....please let us know how the pup is doing :grinhappy:

Good luck. I hope that (emotionally) the pup will be ok. Sometimes it can really mess up a dog's psyche when taken away from the mother so early. Ask your vet.

[moonchiald]

If human companionship can replace the mother then I won't have to worry. My brother, niece, and nephew all slept in the living room floor with him on his bed in the middle of them.

My SIL is taking him with her today so he won't be alone for a second. If she has to go somewhere that he can't go I will be baby-sitting. He has gone both pee and poo this morning so at least those parts are working okay.

I am off in a few minutes to find some sort of milk replacement. It may not be wholly necessary because he is eating some food from a dish but I know it would make all of us feel much, much better.

Thank you all for all the info! When I go today to drop off the milk I will take pics. And I will keep you updated. I have a feeling I will be driving those 3 miles to my brother's house alot in the next couple of weeks.

[LilyMunster]

Feed stores carry a powder form of Puppy Formula. I do think it is the Esbilac mentioned already. I bottle fed an hours old puppy, umbilical cord still wet. Daughter found it on top of a dumpster in a cola 12 pack box. She will be 2 in August and is the picture of health. I do remember introducing wet Lamb and rice puppy food around 5 weeks. It was easy for her to digest this combination. Our vet is very careful, when it comes to taking the dog out of your house or own yard. Until the second set of shots were given, Pam our vet told us that walkin on dirt, grass out in public could introduce the Parvo to the puppy. As I understand it, the virus can live for 2 years in the dirt.

LM

[Chameleon]

Please take that puppy to the vet to be checked out. Is the pup vaccinated at all? Parvo is a dangerous bug for a pup to pick up. That woman (I can't type what I really want to call her) is not a breeder. She doesn't deserve to have dogs. :mad: You might want to check what the laws are in your area. In the county that I live in it is unlawful to seperate a pup from it's mother before it's 8 weeks old.

[moonchiald]

The puppy isn't vaccinated, yet. My SIL contacted a vet and they said to just bring it in a week and a half when it is 6 weeks old.

I don't know what vet she called but I am going to give her the number of my vet in the morning when I pick the pup up to puppy-sit.

I bought the whole milk replacement kit that has a bottle, milk replacement, 2nd stage weaning formula, and a probiotic. It was the esbilac kit. Thank you for the specific recommendation! There were about 4 brands and I wouldn't have had a clue which one to get without them.

The vet (not my regular vet) that I talked to today (I took my mom's cat in because he ripped out a claw that was getting infected) didn't seem too concerned either as long as the pup was eating, drinking, and pooping. The vet said that it isn't super common but that some pups just wean really early.

He did say to feed him often. He said that they can't keep their blood sugar up if they aren't fed every 6 hours (max) or less. I talked to my SIL after that and she said he had eaten 5 times today, as of 9pm and they would feed him again before bed and in the middle of the night.

I never had issues with someone having their own pet bred if they wanted, until now. She treats her own dog like her baby but I guess she just got tired of the pups or maybe she really thought it was okay since the pups were starting to eat on their own. We know the lady as a family friend, so I doubt very seriously that my B&SIL would turn her in. She is not malicious and had a veritable zoo (a lot of rescues) so I am trying to give her the benefit of the doubt.
(Not that she deserves it!)

I am puppy sitting tomorrow (YAY!) and will post pics of him. I have had puppy fever for a month now, I hope this doesn't send me over the edge. DH would freak if I brought another animal home.

[Koala Kim]

Oh! Puppy-sitting! :soppy:
Does this mean that Auntie Moon will take pictures? Hmmm?

Glad to hear the little one is doing so well. :happy:

[moonchiald]

Yes! I took pictures. I had to use my camcorder with low resolution because I can't find my charger for my camera. :evileye: Jazz was terrified of him. She sniffed him as long as he was facing away from her but the second he turned around Jazz was GONE! I was rolling! Raven sniffed him too. When he walked toward her she lifter her paw up like he was distasteful and walked away. She kept a CLOSE eye on him and his crate the whole time he was here.

He was only awake about an hour the whole time. I actually had to wake him up to feed him. He wouldn't take the bottle so I mixed the 2nd step formula and put it in his dish with his food. He got so excited over it that he kept standing in the dish.

Then when he was out playing he kept shivering :eureka: so I cut an old sock and made him a gray sweater. He fell over and rolled all the way over twice, before he got the hang of walking with the "sweater" on. It didn't inhibit his legs at all so I don't know why he flopped all the way over. It was so funny!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00259.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00258.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00257.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00254.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00260.jpg

[Koala Kim]

What a cutie!!! :soppy:
I *love* the close-up of his widdle itty bitty face, but OMG!!! The sock sweater! That is just too priceless! :lafhard:

Poor Jazz. Scared of a widdle itty bitty. But Raven- *she* knows what time it is. ;)

[Nastasska]

Oh he's such a tiny little person:soppy: I hope he keeps on going well and grows into a big strong happy little fellow:puppy:

[moonchiald]

I really really really really (you get the idea) want a puppy!!!! or a baby but a puppy seems so much easier to get right now. :P

[Amber]

If human companionship can replace the mother then I won't have to worry. My brother, niece, and nephew all slept in the living room floor with him on his bed in the middle of them.

As well as taking care of them, the mother also disciplines the pups and teaches the pups what behaviours (like biting) is unacceptable. This is essential for the puppy's socialisation. Puppies that are taken away from their mother too young lose the chance to learn about appropriate canine behaviour from her.

Remind your brother that it will now be his job to teach the pup that mouthing and biting and rude behaviour are not ok, just like the pup's mother and littermates would have done. I've put a link to a good a article about teaching bite inhibition at the bottom of this post.

Another potential problem is that if your pup does not have access to other dogs in his young puppyhood, he will not learn the subtilities of canine behaviour and may grow up to be fearful or aggressive around other dogs. It is a good idea to expose the pup to lots of varying but safe situations, including other dogs if (and only if) you have access to other placid, friendly, well balanced, healthy, vaccinated dogs. If at all possible, getting him a behaviourally stable, vaccinated, well socialised adult canine "mentor" who can visit a couple of times a week might make all the difference. Remember that a bad experience at this age can affect your pup for life, so make sure he has no negative experiences around other dogs, other puppies, or around humans.


http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/DevelopmentalStages.html
http://www.k9force.net/develop.html

http://www.doberman.org/articles/puppy.htm
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/sochow2.html

http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_BiteInhibition.php

[moonchiald]

FABULOUS information Amber!!! My B & SIL haven't had a dog in a zillion years and has never had an inside dog. I worry that they will not want to put the work into this pup that is necessary to take the place of the litter and mother. Well, not so much that they won't WANT to but that they won't understand how important it is. They will think that I am being fanatic when I hand them a stack of print-outs. :drool:

So many people think that pets are a feed them and pat them on the head endeavor, when those of us that are dedicated, responsible owners KNOW that this is not the case. After reading the behavior charts I am almost certain that Jazz (my american eskimo) was taken away from her mom and litter too early. As to the fear periods, I now understand why she is scared of certain things, even when I have never used them in a negative way. (bottles of water, for an example, she will hide if she hears liquid slosh in a bottle). She was 1 year and 2 months old when I got her. (I am hijacking my own puppy thread) :whyme:

I am so grieved that the lady that bred them, sent the pup out on its own this early. :evileye:

I am just printing out alot of info. to give them and praying alot that things will work well. They really should ask if they can return the pup for another few weeks but I don't think the owner of the mother would want them to and I doubt they want to go through the grief of trying to make a 12 & 7 year old understand why their new puppy was taken away.

Thank you all for the information provided!! (Not to say I won't welcome more!)

[Amber]

You're more than welcome. I feel so sorry for the mother dog as well as the puppy, and really do hope everything works out OK for your brother's family. :(

If you want more information, may I suggest a couple of message boards you could post your situation at? I'm either a member or lurker at each of these, and there are some amazingly helpful professional dog trainers, breeders and behaviourists at each site (particularly the first two).

http://dogden.proboards21.com/index.cgi
http://www.leerburgkennels.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php
http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showforum=9

And here's a link to a form that lets you ask free advice from an excellent & very experienced dog trainer.
http://www.k9force.net/advice.html

[Stephanie]

BWAHAHA! That little sweater has got to be the cutest thing I've ever seen and I'm NOT a big fan of clothes on animals. God, that's cute. :lafhard:

He looks much better off than I'd pictured. He's in good hands with you, even though your puppy sitting.

[eiyela]

I should NOT be admitting this in front of my cats, but that has got to be the most adorable thing I've seen in forever! The big, brown eyes, the huge puppy paws, the round belly... *swoon* I think I'm in love.:soppy:

And the sock sweater suits him. He looks like a cool college puppy now. :grinhappy:

[shella]

Oh he's so precious!!!:whoohoo: He looks just like my Liza when I first got her as a tiny pup-- she's my sweet little rat terrier who will soon be 9 years old. She was a pound puppy and has been such a blessing to this family. From my experience, rat terriers are wonderfully loyal and great with children. They tend to be very hyper for the first few years (much like Jack Russel terriers), but mellow out over time. They also love to hunt-- not sure of the complete history, but I know that they were used to help take care rat infestations a long time ago. My girl definitely seems to enjoy catching critters as much as the cats do! She's even caught a possum before...:ooh:

How kind of you to take such good care of this little fella! Good luck and please keep us posted.:flower:

[LilyMunster]

I like the picture of him standing in his food bowl. He looks much sturdier than I thought. And warmer with the perfect sweater. Good work, Moonchiald

LM

[Caldonia Sun]

I have not read through all the posts, so this may have already been addressed, but I am SO MAD, I had to write.

Please, please, please, turn in that breeder to some authority. She could not possibly be a legitimate breeder; one would NEVER do that! She should not be permitted to breed another animal.

Caldonia (the Angry!:pissed: )

[moonchiald]

They tend to be very hyper for the first few years (much like Jack Russel terriers), but mellow out over time.

My 7 year old nephew will be able to keep up. lol He runs absolutely everywhere, including hiking to the top of a 150 foot tall waterfall. He would run ahead and then run back and run ahead..... The WHOLE way up and back down!! I have never seen a child with that much energy! :boggle:

[moonchiald]

He looks much better off than I'd pictured.

The pup is a sturdy looking little thing! He wasn't unhealthy when she took him from his mom but since today is only day 3 that they have had him I am worried if we didn't do the right things fromt he start that he would start to "fade". I have even heard of pups being fine one day and gone the next.

They tend to be very hyper for the first few years (much like Jack Russel terriers), but mellow out over time.

My 7 year old nephew will be able to keep up. lol He runs absolutely everywhere, including hiking to the top of a 150 foot tall waterfall. He would run ahead and then run back and run ahead..... The WHOLE way up and back down!! I have never seen a child with that much energy! :boggle:

[moonchiald]

oops...double post....:parp:

[Pegasus Marsters]

OMG... sooo... cute...

Would you take it the wrong way if I said I wanted to eat him or would you know what I mean? *squeels and runs after the cute puppy*

[moonchiald]

I had him for about 4 hours tonight. This is day 4 that he has been away from his mother and he is still eating well and active and sleeping well. He isn't doing badly at night either.

In the time I had him he ate 2 times, pee'd 4 times, and poo'd 2 times. He hasn't had diarreah and gobbles his food. I am starting to wonder if the mother didn't wean the pups too early because this was her first litter, because he wouldn't even try to use the bottle that I got with the Esbilac. It seems that he wouldn't forget how to suck after 3 days.

He just chewed on the nipple like he chews on my finger. If THAT was how he nursed no wonder the mommy ran. LOL! I put the 2nd stage food over his food and he laps up a good deal while eating his food. This is how it was recommended on the can of powder.

He would wake up and eat and then want to play for a while. He is SO funny when he plays because he keeps falling over everything. He would play about 10-15 mintues and then walk into his crate and fall asleep within seconds.

When he is here I let him sleep as much as he wants so when he goes home and the kids want to play with him he will be rested, eventhough all I want to do is snuggle him.

Raven stalked the crate the whole time he was here. And Jazz acted even more terrified of him today than she did yesterday.

I am sleepy and bored so you will have to excuse my long rambly puppy post. :parp:

[Koala Kim]

Raven stalked the crate the whole time he was here. And Jazz acted even more terrified of him today than she did yesterday.
Poor Jazz! She really needs to take lessons from Raven on showing Mr. Widdle Puppy who's boss. :lafhard:

Thanks for the update Moonchiald! Sounds like the Little One is doing great!
You do realize that we'll need update pictures in a few days, don't you? :innocent:

[moonchiald]

I took the CUTEST picture tonight but my blasted computer won't recognize that there is a dvd in it!! :pissed: I looked at it like this :evileye: but it didn't help.

I realize the poo issue might be TMI but everything I read cited vomiting and diarreah as the first major signs of danger.

My niece and nephew are doing really good with letting him sleep if he wanders into his crate to nap, which he does already when he is tired. I had told them that it could make him really sick if he didn't get good long undisturbed naps, and they are letting him sleep. I am relieved about that. I worried that they would be so obsessed with him that they wouldn't put him down at all.

OH! I was at the vet's with Mom's cat and they told me that right before I got there a woman was bringing in a chihuahua for shots and was carrying it on her shoulder. The dog fell or jumped off and it caused internal bleeding and it died right before I got there!! I made sure to tell them (niece and nephew) to reinforce my coaching on how to carry the pup. It just made me sick when the nurse told me that.

Well, that was a crappy story to end this post on.

[moonchiald]

Poor Jazz! She really needs to take lessons from Raven on showing Mr. Widdle Puppy who's boss. :lafhard:

Thanks for the update Moonchiald! Sounds like the Little One is doing great!
You do realize that we'll need update pictures in a few days, don't you? :innocent:

Raven stalks him but the second he sees her and goes toward her she turns tail and runs, too. :petrified: LOL!

It is so funny to watch a 12lb cat and a 25 lb dog run from a 1 pound puppy that can't even run without falling over!!!! (I need :misskim: or :rollin: here)

[eiyela]

I remember when my gran had puppies (she was taking care of them and the mother for teh EVIL breeder!:pissed: ). We have this huge german shepherd male(around 110 lb, if he doesn't get fat), and he knew the female quite well. Even when the puppies were a couple of weeks old, he could come visit without any trouble. We had them walled up in the bedroom behind a fence so the mother could get in and out when she wanted to without the puppies running around. One of them figured out how to get around the fence, though.

As soon as my dog saw the puppy, he started backing! He was dead scared of the little bugger, and she would still have fit inside his mouth! He just kept backing away, and the puppy followed. She thought it was a great game! When our dog finally backed into the door and was shivering in a corner, we got a hold of the puppy and put her back in. Then we put electrical tape in the fence to keep it shut.:sweatdrop:

[Amber]

How's the baby, Moonchiald?

[moonchiald]

Getting chubbier and still sleeping all the time.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00267.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00266.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00264.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00262.jpg
This is as close as Jazz will get to the puppy. hehe Please excuse all the trashcans in my living room. I was cleaning....
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00268.jpg

[Koala Kim]

Precious widdle puppy!!! :soppy:

Shoot- now *I* want a puppy! :gurn: Yeah- like Voodoo would stand for that. :parp:

[moonchiald]

Between puppy sitting, my mom moving away, me not being preg. yet, and turning 30 I have a HUGE HUGE case puppy fever :pissed: .

I wanted another cat a month ago, if I hadn't been puppy sitting and developed puppy fever :pissed: , I would have brought a 5 week old kitten home from publix. This girl was carrying him around in a towel. She had just found him and took him to the vet. He was solid black and so little.

Okay maybe I have everything fever.... :rolleyes:

[Nastasska]

I get puppy fever every second week:lafhard: right now I want a Basset Hound or a Minature Dachshund :happy:

[CurlyBrunette]

OK, I already have 3 dogs but I want another one after reading this thread. Congrats Moonchaild on such a wonderful job as puppy Momma, what a cutie pie! That puppy reminds me of the dog from the movie MASK with Jim Carey. I LOVED that movie, mostly for the dog in it.
I also have a few choice words for the breeder, %&$&*!!!! Thats all I have to say.

[moonchiald]

I am puppy sitting on and off this week because my B & SIL is in Jamaica.

Here are some update pics. He is such a sweetie!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00329.jpg

He wrinkles his forehead when he isn't sure about something...
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00328.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/moonchiald/DSC00325.jpg